Tulpa.info - metaphysics

that doesnt make sense

4:32 AM

seems like wordplay

Deleted User

ive known people irl who tied all their life issues to saying they didnt have enough seretonion or dopamine, then just laze around all day

to expand on this they would blame dopamine to when there were obvious other factors which they would then ignore and claim dont matter

Let me put it another way. Your brain has memories and it has emotions. We know because of tulpamancy that these things aren't really linked with an identity. So what is an identity? Identity is another sense, it's a feeling all on its own. We use it all the time for ourselves to make a really strong identity. And we make really weak ones all the time too for other people, for fictional characters, and so on, when we want an identity who is to weak to challenge the main identity. But at the end of the day, it's just a feeling. Tulpamancers even know how to change it. Neither of the identity-feelings mean that something is really underneath, it's just a feeling that grows and moves around and links itself with other feelings to make itself feel validated.

4:36 AM

to expand on this they would blame dopamine to when there were obvious other factors which they would then ignore and claim dont matter

This person sounds like they ultimately don't understand dopamine. The key to understanding dopamine is not over-exposing yourself to irrelevant stuff in your life. It's something that can be controlled to better regulate your motivation, but this person only understands half of the truth.

identity isnt that baseless, there are many things which can serve as a base of identity and they are all more or less valid

4:37 AM

and id say ur brain doesnt have memories and emtions in the same way

4:37 AM

memories are stored data

4:37 AM

emotions are results of a context

What is the basis of an identity to you, ignoring talk of a soul then?

well like i identify as a gamer weeb maybe. i base my identity on the fact that i play different games a lot plus i have an interest in japanese stuff so im a weeb

4:38 AM

eo the basis there is playing lots of games and being obsessed with japan

So if you decide 5 years down the line that you don't like that stuff so much anymore, even turning away from it forever, what does that mean for your identity?

means i can no longer identify as that

Then what was at the heart of your identity?

the contemporariness of that activity

4:41 AM

i guess some people may still identify with things they were in the past

To me it sounds like you are describing the actual feeling of identity in the way that I was.

4:41 AM

But we tulpamancers know that the brain can change that at any time. It can even be merged on the fly with other identities

4:42 AM

It can also break apart if you wish it.

how can it be merged with other identities?

4:42 AM

or break apart

4:42 AM

like when developing a tulpa and deciding their personality?

4:43 AM

so u add and remove identities at will to them

The same way that all tulpamancy is done, you believe it. Understand that you're no longer separate whether through some sort of ritual or just through "doing it".

4:46 AM

About a year ago my tulpa, Mika, changed their entire personality in this way. They were anxious and kind of a mess before. They couldn't fix it themselves, so they decided they'd summon up a fictional character and merge with them - A person they thought had a better way of approaching life. Now they're stepping back into life almost completely differently. They define themselves completely differently. The only thing that hasn't changed is the sense that they are Mika and this character. Merging and breaking apart identities are notably a thing that exist in certain mental conditions like DID and OSDD. They often do the latter unintentionally, and part of the treatment can involve integrating back into one whole by accepting that you're one person. (edited)

i wont disagree with that

4:47 AM

i think soul is what ties u in as a singular after all those things

All of this to me shows that identities don't really come from anywhere but feeling. Even if they're good and they let us think in higher ways.

you can change ur personality, change ur mind, change ur physical body, but you will always be the same person cause of ur soul

I don't want to be identity-less. Part of my joy comes from the things I associate with. But I could at any time be different, really.

Zen

All of this to me shows that identities don't really come from anywhere but feeling. Even if they're good and they let us think in higher ways.

you cant just feel something to identify with it tho. i cant just feel im native american and all of a sudden start identifying as it

Identity can also fully "die", usually through psychedelic drugs.

i guess i could but that wouldnt be very valid (edited)

4:50 AM

theres a common set of general experiences that people tend to have to be able to identify with something

Yes, that brings me to "Why identities are the way they are". Why it's difficult to accept things that aren't true. And yes it's all about identification and connection. In order for me to think I'm smart I either need to know I'm not not smart, or have built up memories that tell me I'm smart.

4:51 AM

At the start, it's just the first one, your parents might tell you that you are smart and you'll accept it because you don't know any better.

4:51 AM

But really you can count to five slightly faster than other toddlers.

4:52 AM

The thing about this connection though is that it's all about feeling too, And feeling can be manipulated. If someone goes through school being told they are dumb, they will think they are dumb because they feel the impact of those words, even if they get reasonable or average grades.

4:53 AM

To bring it back to "Can I identify as a native american" - It depends on how much you get out of it. If you are in a community that will encourage that, or you're getting some serious joy out of that, or maybe you think you've been reincarnated or something. All kinds of beliefs can effect whether or not that will vibe with you.

4:53 AM

It is possible for you to change your identity that way.

4:53 AM

But the circumstances have to be right.

4:53 AM

And of course, nobody else has to believe you.

so basically you can identify as what u want, doesnt mean anyone else will agree with u

And if you put stock in their opinions you might change your mind

so i should never listen to peoples opinions

You should be wary of listening to people's opinions on topics concerning what you want to be.

4:55 AM

But understand that your actions do have impact on other people's lives. Live without causing harm if you can, it's a good way to be.

4:56 AM

A white guy declaring he's native american is just kinda gauche, even if it can be done, for example.

4:57 AM

But yes this is why you should try to surround yourself with people who don't talk negatively all day every day

4:57 AM

Their negativity is literally draining

4:57 AM

They impact your identity

yes ive removed all negative people from my life and i feel amazing

5:00 AM

even tho that meant most people

Most people don't have their shit together, and I think most people just mirror what is around them. It's the way of life for those who suffer to spread suffering. That makes it quite difficult to knock these people out of their ways unless they can recognize they're unhappy and someone can show them how to be happy over years - Fighting against all the feelings they've ever had. It would probably be difficult for you or me to accept "I'm a native american"; And for such people it can be just as hard to accept "I can be happy and positive".

5:08 AM

It can be done, but as with any form of identity manipulation it definitely takes a degree of self-awareness

5:09 AM

And you can't walk the road for them, so you have to decide whether any individual is worth the effort and whether they will actually do what it takes.

5:09 AM

And most of them aren't at least one of those things (edited)

While I don't agree with everything Zen said in latest discussion here, at least his claims were somehow intersubjective. After reading all of this again I still don't understand where your claims even come from, @Deleted User. I'm not saying you are right or wrong about things you said about tulpas having souls etc but I'd like to know the basis of these claims at least.

i just wanted someone to talk to about fun esoteric stuff thats all

4:18 PM

anyway i dont want to keep ragging on zen so lets talk about something else

Hi gamers what's going on'?

Souls...?

Ah I see nice'

Fazzie

Hi gamers what's going on'?

floating in the ether, how are you

Sounds pretty cool I suppose'

We can talk about guardian angels. I'm a guardian angel, ama.

Deleted User

We can talk about guardian angels. I'm a guardian angel, ama.

Well, firstly, when you say you are a guardian angel, what does that mean?

It means I'm a real guardian angel with fluffy wings.

Deleted User

It means I'm a real guardian angel with fluffy wings.

fluffy wings sound cute and comfy

Yeah, they are, my owner likes them too.

6:46 PM

Btw. such a spiritual person like you @Deleted User should have their own guardian angel, don't they have fluffy wings too?

what is a guardian angel anyway?

Breloomancer

what is a guardian angel anyway?

Freya :P

7:18 PM

In all seriousness, I think a guardian angel is anything that people see as a supernatural guardian. I think the concept of a guardian angel is more of a Christian thing, but I could be wrong there. I and some of the others are thought of as a guardian angels to an extent. Gray doesn't see us as actual angels, but some of us take guardian roles and have (optional) angel wings. Interestingly, our Sub. Rep. is the only one who has acted as a guardian but lacks wings, or at least, I don't remember him ever having wings (edited)

Deleted User

Btw. such a spiritual person like you @Deleted User should have their own guardian angel, don't they have fluffy wings too?

one time when i was in the ward some crazy looking dude came up to me and said he is jesus and my guardian angel, he didnt have fluffy wings but he did have face tattoos, close enough i guess

A long kiss goodnight

In all seriousness, I think a guardian angel is anything that people see as a supernatural guardian. I think the concept of a guardian angel is more of a Christian thing, but I could be wrong there. I and some of the others are thought of as a guardian angels to an extent. Gray doesn't see us as actual angels, but some of us take guardian roles and have (optional) angel wings. Interestingly, our Sub. Rep. is the only one who has acted as a guardian but lacks wings, or at least, I don't remember him ever having wings (edited)

in hinduism shiva has mental entities that function as something between tulpas and guardian angels

7:37 PM

also the guardian angel thing entered christianity probably through a native religion, most likely from the yazidis who to this day have a strong angel culture (edited)

Huh, interesting. The Christian idea of guardian angels being stolen from someone else doesn't surprise me.

not really stolen, Christianity is a weird amalgamation of ideas from the period that synergized together and acted as a force against tyrannical judaism of the time

tyrannical judaism?

Tyrannical Judaism? I thought Christianity was a force against Roman Mythology (Jupiter, lord of lightening, that religion)

Breloomancer

tyrannical judaism?

by that point in history there were lots of different sects of judaism and a certain one (the pharisees) has pretty much completely taken the rabbi role and were collaborating with the romans, so the citizens of israel rebeled. Christianity did have an anti pagan force as well but that wasnt its original goal and there were many rather peaceful syncretic pagan/christian faiths for a long time

The more you look into Christianity the more you realize that it was actually cool up until control seeking assholes established an orthodoxy

I'm not an expert on the history of either of those religions, but this seems doubtful. can you tell me how you came to this conclusion? I know someone who knows a lot more about the history of judaism and christianity than me, and he told me that he thinks that the story of jesus may have been made up by people outside of judaism to try to convince people to stop participating in jewish traditions, though it is also my understanding that that belief is not the prevailing one among experts (edited)

Candlelight Society 🕯

The more you look into Christianity the more you realize that it was actually cool up until control seeking assholes established an orthodoxy

literally this

Breloomancer

I'm not an expert on the history of either of those religions, but this seems doubtful. can you tell me how you came to this conclusion? I know someone who knows a lot more about the history of judaism and christianity than me, and he told me that he thinks that the story of jesus may have been made up by people outside of judaism to try to convince people to stop participating in jewish traditions, though it is also my understanding that that belief is not the prevailing one among experts (edited)

i mean this is the story given in the gospels, whether jesus was a historical figure or not is hard to tell, his thoughts certainly did stop people from participating in jewish traditions but thats probably for the best, and before u call me anti semitic im literally hebrew but my family abandoned judaism two generations ago

why is that for the best?

but there's barely any evidence for most people from that time period, and at the time jesus was just some local rebel so he wouldnt have been recorded extensively

Breloomancer

why is that for the best?

insane dietary restrictions, genital mutilation, anti social behaviour, justified random violence towards other groups, sexist world views, anti intellectual, etc

that's an obviously biased take

i mean its biased if you think those things are good

8:00 PM

but im really happy i wasnt born into that and my grandparents left judaism

no, I mean it's biased no mater what. you didn't say what they did, you said your opinion on what they do, which obviously isn't helpful for me. I can work out what you mean by "insane dietary restrictions", "genital mutilation", and "sexist world views", but I don't know what you're talking about with the other ones

The other problems are common among many orthodox religious grious.

Deleted User

The other problems are common among many orthodox religious grious.

yes, but that doesn't mean that we can assume that all orthodox religious groups have them

General rule of thumb, most religions are typically OK up until they have something resembling orthodoxy. Religions are cool, organized religion and enforced dogma isn't.

I think we can by induction.

8:05 PM

I wouldn't say that religion itself is cool but it can be pretty harmless if believers aren't fundamentalists.

I don't believe anything if I can avoid it